i'm embarrassed for k-state fans ...

Discussion related to the K-State men's basketball team

Re: i'm embarrassed for k-state fans ...

Postby xtrawildcat » January 12th, 2018, 4:33 pm

Having a ground floor entrance would be nice.
The only reason I go to a basketball arena is to watch basketball and the sight lines and seats are OK with me. I really don't have any other amenities I am looking for.
As I said, an Ahearn upgrade would have been best but that ship sailed a long time ago.
Building another basketball arena to provide me the same seats and view would be money down the drain imo. Keep spending our money on amenities for the players to help us win more and Bramlage will seem a lot better to all of us.

By the way, we went to OSU a few years ago to watch a Big 12 game. OSU was still pretty good at that time. Our seats were at the top of Gallagher Iba and once we finally got there and sat down we realized they were rediculously bad seats. None of the top row seats at Bramlage are close to that bad. We got up and found center court seats about 10 rows up in a half filled arena and had a miserable experience as we watched the Cats lose.
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Re: i'm embarrassed for k-state fans ...

Postby ajcksu82 » January 12th, 2018, 4:40 pm

I thought I remember reading that they can't to any major upgrades to Bramlage because any such upgrades would also require making sure everything is up to current code which would significantly add to the cost of those upgrades.
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Re: i'm embarrassed for k-state fans ...

Postby xtrawildcat » January 12th, 2018, 4:43 pm

Willie, you sound like you may have attended games in Ahearn. Seats were terrible. View from the upper deck was pretty poor on the ends of the court due to how far they were from the court. Amenities were non existent but everyone of us that went to games loved it. Three things that made Ahearn great.
1. Acoustics. For some reason, it reverberated crowd noise like no other place I have been in. Cover the walls and ceilings at Bramlage with some tin and maybe we would have something.
2. The students were in bleachers right at the edge of the court. Very intimidating. (No reason they cant remove that first row for fat cats and let the students all the way to the floor on the east side.
3. We won.

It would be great if we could do somthing at Bramlage to create those three conditions.
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Re: i'm embarrassed for k-state fans ...

Postby tmcats » January 12th, 2018, 4:53 pm

bram has significant groundwater issues. sumps are located in the building to deal with it.

kruger wanted a larger venue. money was a limitation, no question. but i can't see it being replaced. currie never had it in his long-range plan.

but as for lighting and inside experience, i'm not sure what the complaints are all about. the lighting was recently upgraded to nba standards. and it gets damn loud in there when the place is beyond half full.

access is a real issue though. only the wealthiest of contributors get to walk in through the south entrance.
"You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it."
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Re: i'm embarrassed for k-state fans ...

Postby learnin » January 12th, 2018, 5:11 pm

wazucat wrote:Take away the two years that Foster ruined, and the performances are just about the same.
Predecessor had a magical elite 8 year, replacement had a conference championship year.
All the other years were up and down wondering if we were going to make the tournament.

How many programs can really expect more than to have good hope that the season will result in a tournament invite?
Now, of course, if the tournament is missed, regularly, that's another thing.

WHO RECRUITED MARCUS ?

EXCUSES NEVER END[/quote]

Where you see excuses, I see sound, and fair, reasoning. Marcus performed well his freshman season and surprised the basketball NCAA world. He helped us to have a good season when most thought we would surely be down with losing Angel and Rod. It was a good season, which might have been an excellent season if it had not been for an unfortunate turn of events that pitted our guys against a very close to national championship team in the opening game. Marcus, obviously, did not handle success well. After coming back down to earth, when Weber gave him his walking papers, he has performed well for Creighton these last 3 years. My point? Marcus was not a recruiting miss. Marcus was a recruiting hit who did not handle his sudden stardom very well. It's understandable however lamentable it might be.
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Re: i'm embarrassed for k-state fans ...

Postby WIldWIllieCat » January 12th, 2018, 5:26 pm

I'll admit that I'm a bit surprised to find people that defend "The Bram". It's likely because ya'll are fans and view any negative comment as a slight against your alma mater, but it's equally likely I'm just isolated in my opinions(ha! wouldn't be the first time) of the place.

xtra, I unfortunately did not get to attend games at Ahearn. I'm afraid that was a bit before my time(not by much mind you).

Be it noted that I was NOT saying we should spend money on Bram NOR that we should build another arena. Heck, with the practice facility in place we've "doubled-down" on that ugly concrete pig. Slap as much lip stick on it as you want, it ain't gonna make a bit of difference.
“There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.” ~Ernest Hemingway~
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Re: i'm embarrassed for k-state fans ...

Postby xtrawildcat » January 12th, 2018, 5:55 pm

WIldWIllieCat wrote:I'll admit that I'm a bit surprised to find people that defend "The Bram". It's likely because ya'll are fans and view any negative comment as a slight against your alma mater, but it's equally likely I'm just isolated in my opinions(ha! wouldn't be the first time) of the place.

xtra, I unfortunately did not get to attend games at Ahearn. I'm afraid that was a bit before my time(not by much mind you).

Be it noted that I was NOT saying we should spend money on Bram NOR that we should build another arena. Heck, with the practice facility in place we've "doubled-down" on that ugly concrete pig. Slap as much lip stick on it as you want, it ain't gonna make a bit of difference.


Anyway. Good discussion. I would not mind a little money to get the students right to the floor and something to help the acoustics. I'm back to discussing what we can do to win more.
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Re: i'm embarrassed for k-state fans ...

Postby WIldWIllieCat » January 12th, 2018, 6:51 pm

Well, I'm a bit torn. My complaints about the Octagon of Gloom were supposed to be the noncontroversial lead-ins to me discussing the much more controversial roots of what I see as a major problem....
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Re: i'm embarrassed for k-state fans ...

Postby CinderBiscuit » January 12th, 2018, 7:22 pm

When the crowds were sparse when Huggins and Martin were here, they call us out on it. Frank would have taken us fans to task after the OSU game. Bruce Weber on the other hand said it was a great crowd. Huggins and Martin demanded greatness from the players AND the fans. Not sure Bruce does with either. It's sad, because that was a great performance by Barry. The play where he stole the ball and drove down the court for a layup....that should have blow the roof off of the place. But, it was only half full.

Huggins and Martin also did wonders working over officials. It finally felt like we were going to get a fair shake after the Wooly years. They didn't put up with crap calls and made sure the officials knew it. They worked them over, and they wouldn't let the other coach over influence the refs. At least that's what it felt like to me during that time. Bruce lacks in this area big time. The Tech game from last year is a prime example of that. I think KSU fans liked the brashness they brought. We were no longer going to be bullied, especially in our own gym.

Another reason.....Bruce says some of the dumbest things. It's hard to get behind him. Saying we won the play hard chart when we lost the game doesn't win fans over. If winning the play hard doesn't equate to winning games, why have it? Telling us last year we out hustled KU in both games and played harder than they did, but yet we still lost.....again, that doesn't resonate well with fans. And then having Self call him out on it.....embarrassing. After the KU game at home last year, he said on the post game with Wyatt and Stan that "we don't have any NBA players on this team". What kind of statement is that??? Why would a coach say something like that? First of all, YOU recruited them, and second of all, YES WE DID! Wes got drafted!!!! I'm not a big rah rah guy of Snyder's 16 goals, but that statement is pretty self limiting, isn't it? Snyder would never say something like that. No good coach would.

I think finally, the reason people might be checking out is they don't think the administration is interested in winning, or doing what it takes to win. Keitzman has mentioned this a few time in the past. I never really believed that, but part of me is starting to wonder. Some out there think doing what it takes to win equates to cheating. I'm not into cheating, but I am into doing what other programs are doing to stay competitive. If that means getting into the "gray" area, fine with me. Do we just want to go out there and go .500 and make the tournament once every 4 or 5 years? If so, fine.....just let me know so I can stop buying tickets, because that's not what I want. Stop talking about "competing" for a championship. Everyone competes for a championship. Start winning championships.

For the record, I still have season tickets. I only went to one non-con game because none of them are worth my time or gas money to go see. I plan on going to all conference games. I find myself not wanting to get too invested in this team. I don't think they are very good. The defense and lack of rebounding are awful. We have to shoot 50+ percent or have someone go off for 30+ points to even have a chance. I think this team only wins 6 conference games, and I thought that before Kam went down. The model we have for winning games this year just isn't sustainable. Time will tell. I hope that I am wrong. I really do. I wish Bruce would win multiple championships. I just don't think that will ever happen.
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Re: i'm embarrassed for k-state fans ...

Postby Fullypersuaded » January 12th, 2018, 7:40 pm

wazucat wrote:
tmcats wrote:frank's record at k-state averaged 23-11, 4 ncaa's, 2 ranked teams
weber's record for the same period 20-14, 3 ncaa's and a conference championship, 1 ranked team

i think you guys have hit the issue. it's personality. no more "mf'ing wildcats" persona on the bench. otherwise, their records are too close to draw cult-like animus.


Even your carefully selected comparisons show Frank's tenure is better than Bruce's, how about comparing upper division Big 12 finishes, winning % in conference play, appearances on featured TV games nationally , National media attention to KSU, wins in the NCAA tourney, If you are satisfied with second division finishes and below 50% conference records, then Bruce is your man and you are entitled to your opinion.


A shared conference championship with Frank's players. We don't remotely have the toughness those teams had.
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