ASU 85, KU 75

Discussion related to the K-State men's basketball team
IStillLikeHarv
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Re: ASU 85, KU 75

Post by IStillLikeHarv » December 10th, 2017, 7:41 pm

The ASU victory at KU simply highlights what we already know. When KSU's shots are falling the way they did in the ASU game, they are essentially at the same level as ASU and have the potential to win any game on their Big 12 schedule. By the same token, the game against Tulsa shows that when KSU shoots very poorly, they can lose any game on their Big 12 schedule. Is anyone really surprised by that?

The key to the season, of course, is how consistently KSU will play at what level. The other element you can add to that is how much will KSU improve during the season (just as other Big 12 teams will improve) given their 8 players with no experience at KSU, and 7 of them with no DI experience at all. For better or for worse, everything is still on the table. The ASU win at KU simply reinforced that point, as did the loss to Tulsa.

KITNooga
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Re: ASU 85, KU 75

Post by KITNooga » December 10th, 2017, 7:48 pm

harv,
solid thoughts. just wondering though: how, what is key to getting teams (this team) to play with more consistency? Is it to have players who think a bit more?

for instance: miss a shot, get the rebound, maybe take it back out and work the offense for another, better shot? vs taking a contested shot at the moment?

is it discipline of the players? is that discipline needing to come from the coaches? it is running an offense with patience EVEN with a shot clock?

just thinking, asking?

xtrawildcat
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Re: ASU 85, KU 75

Post by xtrawildcat » December 10th, 2017, 7:49 pm

Wildcat69 wrote:Makes our close loss harder to take - that was huge RPI opportunity - although still have to do well in league anyway - the loss to ASU or the loss to Tulsa doesn’t change the narrative much
Good post. The league will be strong enough that it will determine our fate. Our two losses were great opportunities but if we screw up in the league, they wouldn't matter anyway. Probably means we have to get one more win in league to make the tournament.

katlander
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Re: ASU 85, KU 75

Post by katlander » December 10th, 2017, 9:29 pm

I think we will be more consistent if we let the game come to us. We have to work the ball for good shots. I didn't see the Tulsa game but I would guess we were a little trigger happy. 31 is a lot of threes when they're falling, when they are not it is a crazy number. I am assuming they were playing zone but we still need to run the O.

learnin
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Re: ASU 85, KU 75

Post by learnin » December 10th, 2017, 10:58 pm

PurpleOnWhite wrote:Does this make Tulsa a team to fear?
No, not when Kansas State missed 30 3 pointers. But ASU is as good as any team in the nation....bar none.

pulitzerdave
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Re: ASU 85, KU 75

Post by pulitzerdave » December 10th, 2017, 11:02 pm

Every team LOOKS good when they're making shots. That doesn't mean that they ARE good. So many more things make up a good team. We've yet to demonstrate some of those things. So I wouldn't get so carried away with the ASU game (it was a loss). So far our resume is pretty weak. It will have to built in conference, because we've already missed on two opportunities and haven't beaten a team with a pulse or a winning record. We need to see positive growth in troublesome areas. We have miles to go.

Wildcat69
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Re: ASU 85, KU 75

Post by Wildcat69 » December 11th, 2017, 9:56 am

Yeah it’s funny that all the experts have their locks for the tourney in or out already before Conference play begins based on non-con. Still so much basketball left and any team is one or two injuries away from a collapse.

IStillLikeHarv
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Re: ASU 85, KU 75

Post by IStillLikeHarv » December 11th, 2017, 10:46 am

KITNooga wrote:harv,
solid thoughts. just wondering though: how, what is key to getting teams (this team) to play with more consistency? Is it to have players who think a bit more?

for instance: miss a shot, get the rebound, maybe take it back out and work the offense for another, better shot? vs taking a contested shot at the moment?

is it discipline of the players? is that discipline needing to come from the coaches? it is running an offense with patience EVEN with a shot clock?

just thinking, asking?
I think the key word is experience. The seven first-year players have played some minutes in a grand total of 10 D1 games, and several of those games were against low-level competition. KSU cannot reach its potential without significant contributions from some of those first-year players.

Mawdo Sallah does have DI experience, but even he has to make the major step up to playing high major teams on a regular basis. His game appears to have some limitations, but he has to play some role in the group effort to give KSU viable post play. He is very dedicated and intelligent, so it is definitely possible that he will improve as the season progresses and he masters his offensive and defensive assignments.

Makol Mawien is obviously talented, but he is totally new to DI play, let alone high major play. Unfortunately he is a typical newbie mix of really nice plays and hair-pulling plays. How quickly he can make progress at this level will be a key to KSU's season. He is one of the players with the most "work to do" because he appears to have a high ceiling if he can master the fundamentals of his role.

Levi Stockard, Nigel Shadd, and James Love (if he is healthy) are a mixed bag of physical size and basketball talent, but they are all freshmen. KSU has to hope it can get some useful minutes out of this group this season, but it seems doubtful at this point to me that any of them will step up into leading roles on the KSU front line. Even limited help from these players could be crucial though in Big 12 play because of foul trouble.

Cartier Diarra is clearly a potential key to KSU's season. Some had him replacing KSU's third-year starters at guard right out of the gate, but that was wildly optimistic as I noted at the time. That said, Cartier appears to have the talent to be a major positive factor on this team. It appears to me that the game is still moving too quickly for him (hardly a shocker at this point), but like Mawien this is a player KSU really needs to step up. Again, this is another "lots of work to do" player, but he could be a big plus before this season is over.

Amaad Wainright is a pleasant surprise in many ways, but he is still putting it all together. As with Cartier, he is not ready yet to replace any starters, but he seems tantalizingly close to being a really nice player off the bench. HIs athleticism at times seems to be right up there with Xavier and Cartier, which is saying a lot. I look for him to be a very significant contributor sooner rather than later. He already has a Big 12 body.

I am a bit disappointed in the play of Brian Patrick, and I am sure he is frustrated as well. We saw last season that he has some potential, but so far this season he does not seem to have progressed much at all. Maybe if his shot comes around the rest of his game will follow. We'll see.

Mike McGuirl is very much in the tantalizing department, but his injuries have made him a non-factor so far. We'll just have to see what happens, but the few snippets of action we have seen keep me from writing him off completely for this season. Who knows.

All four returning starters (Xavier did start two games last season) have made progress this season, but they all need to keep making progress. When they are playing well, they make KSU a truly competitive team at the high major level as the game against ASU showed, but they have to keep improving both individually and as a unit. I think they will, but again, we'll have to see if it happens.

That is my take on where the players are at. The coaches are to some extent dependent on what happens with the individual players. but as the players develop, the coaches will also have to continue to adjust the schemes to match the various player combinations. As has been pointed out, for example, several of the big men appear to have nice midrange jumpers, but it seems that was not used as much as it might have been against Tulsa when the threes were not dropping. Many argue that the 16-19 foot jumper is the worst shot in college basketball statistically, but if your threes are not dropping and your midrange jumpers are, that theory breaks down in practice. Lots of work to do, but there is also a lot of potential in this squad in my opinion. That's my overview at the moment. We'll just have to stay tuned to see what happens.

Wildcat69
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Re: ASU 85, KU 75

Post by Wildcat69 » December 11th, 2017, 12:56 pm

Yeah it’s funny that all the experts have their locks for the tourney in or out already before Conference play begins based on non-con. Still so much basketball left and any team is one or two injuries away from a collapse.

pulitzerdave
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Re: ASU 85, KU 75

Post by pulitzerdave » December 11th, 2017, 1:07 pm

Lots of ifs and very few answers so far from this team.

There has been a huge missed opportunity with ASU, and a head-scratching loss to Tulsa, which may (because of a weak non-con schedule) end up being crucial come NCAA selection time.

The most disappointing aspect for me has been the lack of improvement from our front line players. The 5 position in today's game is not a place for the meek. At the very least, these players, as they are adapting to the rigors of D-1 basketball, should first show effort and aggressiveness over skill. Don't get me wrong, skill is important, but we have 4 other guys who already have the skills to put the ball in the basket. What we need is a toughness and a willingness to rebound and defend from our 5's. The game of college basketball has been full of great teams with 4 scorers and 1 guy who brings his lunch pail and hard hat. WE NEED ONE (or even two or three) MEAN SOBS who take no prisoners inside the paint. From what I've seen so far, that player doesn't exist on this team, given the personalities. We need a 6'9" Austin Budke.
With the other pieces that we have, that player alone would make us so much better, and punch our ticket to the NCAA Tournament.

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