Dai Dai Gone!!

[stlcatfan]

Please, this is not complicated.
1. Coaches are treating players in their program better than they ever have. They have no choice.
Guys who abuse their players like Greg Marshall used to will struggle with unlimited transfer.
2. Coaches are going to use the resources they have to sign the very best roster they can. Resources include NIL, playing time, development, fan engagement, chances of winning, etc.
Any coach that does not will not be successful.
3. Players are going to look for the best situation for them and their family. That means NIL, playing time, etc, etc. Best situation may not be their current school.
4. Their will be lots of player movement as players seek the best opportunity.
5. We are lucky to have a staff who is able to get into conversations with the best players.

Fans can either
1. Enjoy the pursuit of better players and how we fill the roster.
2. Hate the entire process and check out from enjoying college basketball.
3. Relax and see what happens in roster construction and then follow the wins and losses like they normally do.

Funny how lots of fans are actively rooting for some players to transfer out but whine and moan when others transfer. Why did we not have such an outcry when Finister left?

As a fan, I feel like I can hate the current process, while still doing #1 and #3. I'm not ready to check out... yet.

Regarding Finister, I don't think there was an outcry when he left because it was pretty much expected he would enter the portal. Dai Dai was a different story. He was someone who was getting lots of playing time as a true freshman and was expected to return and be a big contributor to next year's team.

[xtrawildcat]

An interesting conversation going on here. Anti-Tang of course, with speculation about things not based on knowledge, but based on suppositions and an obvious hate for the current coach. None of the excuses offered up for that level of loathing amount to the between the lines disdain that clearly comes from those posts. Hmmm....I wonder what that is all about...

I have a feeling that even 5 years of NCAA tourney appearances, a couple of conference championships in a conference that gets increasingly difficult to win and trying to do right by players in a portal landscape that is constantly shifting to the point that it will destroy college sports just won't please him. Tang can't win with him, no matter how successful and accountable Tang is.

I am not surprised that much by Ames leaving. We don't know all of the ins and outs of what happened here, but with the influx of guards, Dai Dai obviously was not comfortable with his place on the team. In a sense, he gave up on himself in order to find some gratification rather than self-improvement. When you start hanging six figure 'salaries' in front of 18-19 year old kids, they will not always make the best decisions, not to mention in an already rocky 'what have you done for me lately' landscape BEFORE the extra money showed up.

If you would go back and read the archives, you would find out the truth. You would find that I was an enthusiastic supporter of Tang's hiring. You would find that I was a season ticket holder his first year and read about how I praised him for giving the green light to Marquis and understanding that you need a guard who takes risks. You would read how I praised him for having great plays coming out of a time out. Then, you would read how I slowly, throughout the first year, began to have misgivings. Here are the things that slowly put out my fire for the hire.

1. When asked if he might consider leaving if good programs came calling, coach remarked that he goes where God tells him to go. I wrote then that this was a subtle way of saying, "I'm outta here if the right gig comes along."

2. After winning the Sweet 16 game, he proclaimed that, "this is what happens when you put God first." This is contrary to my belief about God.

3. After returning home from the elite 8 loss, he proclaimed that there would be a parade through Manhattan and soon. No coach should make such a prediction.

4. During that summer, he told a recruit that, "we're going to the final four with or without you." This is more than I could brush off.

This is the truth. There is no agenda.

Learnin,
We all know you have an issue with Tangs expressions of his belief in God even though he embraces and helps his Muslim players embrace and worship their faith. We know you do not like Tang expressing high expectations for the program. Even after coming close to the final four last year.

How about discussing a few other points regarding the job the coaching staff is doing.
1. We had three freshman guards and Ques enter the portal after we signed experienced proven players at theirposition. Is the coaching staff at fault for this player exodus or is it the nature of college basketball in the portal NIL.

2. This coaching staff has been able to get interest and visits from higher level players than any previous staff. Some they have won , (Castillo, Dug) and some they have lost.
Do you see getting in on high level recruits and transfers and being able to sign some as a positive. Or is it just chasing dudes.

3. You are a big promoter of the force. Tang lost two starter caliber players this year in November for the entire season. (Tomlin and Glover). Has any KState coach had the force ause him to lose that much production for the entire season at the very start of the season? But still able to make the NIT.

What are your thoughts on these discussion points.

[learnin]

If you would go back and read the archives, you would find out the truth. You would find that I was an enthusiastic supporter of Tang's hiring. You would find that I was a season ticket holder his first year and read about how I praised him for giving the green light to Marquis and understanding that you need a guard who takes risks. You would read how I praised him for having great plays coming out of a time out. Then, you would read how I slowly, throughout the first year, began to have misgivings. Here are the things that slowly put out my fire for the hire.

1. When asked if he might consider leaving if good programs came calling, coach remarked that he goes where God tells him to go. I wrote then that this was a subtle way of saying, "I'm outta here if the right gig comes along."

2. After winning the Sweet 16 game, he proclaimed that, "this is what happens when you put God first." This is contrary to my belief about God.

3. After returning home from the elite 8 loss, he proclaimed that there would be a parade through Manhattan and soon. No coach should make such a prediction.

4. During that summer, he told a recruit that, "we're going to the final four with or without you." This is more than I could brush off.

This is the truth. There is no agenda.

There is and you have decided not to put it into words.

“The self-righteous scream judgments against others to hide the noise of skeletons dancing in their own closets.”
― John Mark Green

Perhaps you would be willing to let me in on the secret.

[learnin]

If you would go back and read the archives, you would find out the truth. You would find that I was an enthusiastic supporter of Tang's hiring. You would find that I was a season ticket holder his first year and read about how I praised him for giving the green light to Marquis and understanding that you need a guard who takes risks. You would read how I praised him for having great plays coming out of a time out. Then, you would read how I slowly, throughout the first year, began to have misgivings. Here are the things that slowly put out my fire for the hire.

1. When asked if he might consider leaving if good programs came calling, coach remarked that he goes where God tells him to go. I wrote then that this was a subtle way of saying, "I'm outta here if the right gig comes along."

2. After winning the Sweet 16 game, he proclaimed that, "this is what happens when you put God first." This is contrary to my belief about God.

3. After returning home from the elite 8 loss, he proclaimed that there would be a parade through Manhattan and soon. No coach should make such a prediction.

4. During that summer, he told a recruit that, "we're going to the final four with or without you." This is more than I could brush off.

This is the truth. There is no agenda.

Learnin,
We all know you have an issue with Tangs expressions of his belief in God even though he embraces and helps his Muslim players embrace and worship their faith.

Xtra, thank you for a nice post and discussion. I do not have a problem with the expression of one's faith as long as one does not proselytize when given a public podium. I have a problem with Tang's promotion of what I know to be a dangerous form of faith. Namely, that God will bless one with material successes if one put's God first. I shouldn't have to point out how dangerous this can be. Cheaters often times thrive. People, who leave everything behind for their God, often times are beset with misfortune. I have more to say about the danger, but don't want this to break into a religious discussion.

We know you do not like Tang expressing high expectations for the program. Even after coming close to the final four last year.

I have no problem, whatsoever, with any coach having high hopes for his program. I do have a problem with a coach promising a national championship.

How about discussing a few other points regarding the job the coaching staff is doing.
1. We had three freshman guards and Ques enter the portal after we signed experienced proven players at their position. Is the coaching staff at fault for this player exodus or is it the nature of college basketball in the portal NIL.

First of all, the NIL, and current transfer rules, are not good for the game of basketball simply because it promotes a cutthroat mentality. I would expect principled coaches to step up and say, "enough is enough". I'm hoping this will happen soon. We were already loaded at the guard position with Castillo, Ames, Carter and others. Obviously, the coaching staff is looking for another Marquis Nowell or a fantastic dynamic duo out front in order to make a good run. Do I blame them? It depends on what was promised to those who were recruited over. I would hope, as a coach, I would use the portal to fill vacancies left by graduation, portal entries and injury.
I see it as a positive but wonder how much success there would be if there was no NIL money.

Good question. First of all, I would have to say I'm not sure how much positive effect Glover and Tomlin would have produced. I watched Tomlin play up close for one year. He showed a very good upside but had some negative effects with his attitude and tendency to fire up 3's at inopportune times. I, honestly, don't know much about Glover so I'm just operating with all the praise I've read about on this board. But, I'll grant that it was a big blow from the force.



What are your thoughts on these discussion points.

[spot2180]

There is and you have decided not to put it into words.

“The self-righteous scream judgments against others to hide the noise of skeletons dancing in their own closets.”
― John Mark Green

Perhaps you would be willing to let me in on the secret.

You tell me. You are the one grinding the axe,

[xtrawildcat]

Xtra, thank you for a nice post and discussion. I do not have a problem with the expression of one's faith as long as one does not proselytize when given a public podium. I have a problem with Tang's promotion of what I know to be a dangerous form of faith. Namely, that God will bless one with material successes if one put's God first. I shouldn't have to point out how dangerous this can be. Cheaters often times thrive. People, who leave everything behind for their God, often times are beset with misfortune. I have more to say about the danger, but don't want this to break into a religious discussion.

I have no problem, whatsoever, with any coach having high hopes for his program. I do have a problem with a coach promising a national championship.

OK. Just a few comments.
1. These coaches have a lot of connections and are well known. NIL or not, their recruiting abilities are impressive. Does not mean we can close on every player.

2. I hated to see the freshmen transfer but they were not pushed out. Unfortunately, every coach in the country has to recruit the very best players from the portal to fill open spots. That means existing players have to compete for their minutes. Winning fills Bramlage regardless who the coach is. Players already on the team have to make the best choices for their future.

3. Glover was practicing as a major part of this team in the two weeks before his injury. Tang said it was a big blow as they were seeing good things from the team during those two weeks.
Tomlin averaged 14 a game with an elite .678 true shooting %. Only one tov a game and 40% from three.
It is highly likely we would have been in the tournament with either of those guys able to play. And a really strong team if we had both. Once you are in the tourney, a national championship is possible.
However, I did not hear many what ifs from Tang after the season concluded.

[katlander]

An interesting conversation going on here. Anti-Tang of course, with speculation about things not based on knowledge, but based on suppositions and an obvious hate for the current coach. None of the excuses offered up for that level of loathing amount to the between the lines disdain that clearly comes from those posts. Hmmm....I wonder what that is all about...

I have a feeling that even 5 years of NCAA tourney appearances, a couple of conference championships in a conference that gets increasingly difficult to win and trying to do right by players in a portal landscape that is constantly shifting to the point that it will destroy college sports just won't please him. Tang can't win with him, no matter how successful and accountable Tang is.

I am not surprised that much by Ames leaving. We don't know all of the ins and outs of what happened here, but with the influx of guards, Dai Dai obviously was not comfortable with his place on the team. In a sense, he gave up on himself in order to find some gratification rather than self-improvement. When you start hanging six figure 'salaries' in front of 18-19 year old kids, they will not always make the best decisions, not to mention in an already rocky 'what have you done for me lately' landscape BEFORE the extra money showed up.

If you would go back and read the archives, you would find out the truth. You would find that I was an enthusiastic supporter of Tang's hiring. You would find that I was a season ticket holder his first year and read about how I praised him for giving the green light to Marquis and understanding that you need a guard who takes risks. You would read how I praised him for having great plays coming out of a time out. Then, you would read how I slowly, throughout the first year, began to have misgivings. Here are the things that slowly put out my fire for the hire.

1. When asked if he might consider leaving if good programs came calling, coach remarked that he goes where God tells him to go. I wrote then that this was a subtle way of saying, "I'm outta here if the right gig comes along."

2. After winning the Sweet 16 game, he proclaimed that, "this is what happens when you put God first." This is contrary to my belief about God.

3. After returning home from the elite 8 loss, he proclaimed that there would be a parade through Manhattan and soon. No coach should make such a prediction.

4. During that summer, he told a recruit that, "we're going to the final four with or without you." This is more than I could brush off.

This is the truth. There is no agenda.

I can vouch for you learnin. You were supportive of Tang when he came here. I know I was not impressed when he basically said that our entire roster was not good enough to play for him and talked about elevating rather than to merely improve our program. He was going to find dudes who would soon bring home a B12 championship and compete to win it all. He was telling fans what they wanted to hear and what he was hired to deliver. After his first year he appeared to be more than an optimist and a dreamer

Despite his having a good year you became disillusioned by the way he often referenced religion and that he believed God would bring us good things if we put him first. He basically put his life in the hands of God. You know, religion is complicated. There are over 40,000 Christian denominations world wide and all believing much the same thing, but with enough variation that they apparently had differences with the other 39,999. If I remember correctly it was Coach Tang's approach to religion which you had issue with. Maybe you guys just believe differently. He seems to profess his faith and I am guessing that you generally do not do that.

Which way is better? I have no idea. I think we are all free to believe as we do. Does Coach Tang go too far with religion? I'll leave that to the court of public opinion and the K-State administration. Maybe Litton doesn't like it and was unwilling to leave Tomlin's fate in the hands of Taylor, Tang and Tang beliefs. No matter who we hire there will be issues. I am willing to let Tang's approach run its course.

After amazing good fortune and a great tourney run we got some good recruits and transfers. We also missed on some, but looked solid going into year 2. Then Glover reinjured his knee and the Tomlin fiasco ensued. Cam Carter was asked to be a dude but began to struggle. Coach Tang had sold the dream and crazy faith but it was just not enough to overcome the loss of Markquis, Keyonte, Tomlin and Glover. He knew we once again needed an infusion of dudes to have a chance to dance next year.

The portal and NIL has left a lot of teams in the lurch. I have faith that this staff will assemble a good team, with a little help from the man above.

[katlander]

If you would go back and read the archives, you would find out the truth. You would find that I was an enthusiastic supporter of Tang's hiring. You would find that I was a season ticket holder his first year and read about how I praised him for giving the green light to Marquis and understanding that you need a guard who takes risks. You would read how I praised him for having great plays coming out of a time out. Then, you would read how I slowly, throughout the first year, began to have misgivings. Here are the things that slowly put out my fire for the hire.

1. When asked if he might consider leaving if good programs came calling, coach remarked that he goes where God tells him to go. I wrote then that this was a subtle way of saying, "I'm outta here if the right gig comes along."

2. After winning the Sweet 16 game, he proclaimed that, "this is what happens when you put God first." This is contrary to my belief about God.

3. After returning home from the elite 8 loss, he proclaimed that there would be a parade through Manhattan and soon. No coach should make such a prediction.

4. During that summer, he told a recruit that, "we're going to the final four with or without you." This is more than I could brush off.

This is the truth. There is no agenda.

I can vouch for you learnin. You were supportive of Tang when he came here. I know I was not impressed when he basically said that our entire roster was not good enough to play for him and talked about elevating rather than to merely improve our program. He was going to find dudes who would soon bring home a B12 championship and compete to win it all. He was telling fans what they wanted to hear and what he was hired to deliver. After his first year he appeared to be more than an optimist and a dreamer

Despite his having a good year you became disillusioned by the way he often referenced religion and that he believed God would bring us good things if we put him first. He basically put his life in the hands of God. You know, religion is complicated. There are over 40,000 Christian denominations world wide and all believing much the same thing, but with enough variation that they apparently had differences with the other 39,999. If I remember correctly it was Coach Tang's approach to religion which you had issue with. Maybe you guys just believe differently. He seems to profess his faith and I am guessing that you generally do not do that.

Which way is better? I have no idea. I think we are all free to believe as we do. Does Coach Tang go too far with religion? I'll leave that to the court of public opinion and the K-State administration. Maybe Litton doesn't like it and was unwilling to leave Tomlin's fate in the hands of Taylor, Tang and Tang beliefs. No matter who we hire there will be issues. I am willing to let Tang's approach run its course.

After amazing good fortune and a great tourney run we got some good recruits and transfers. We also missed on some, but looked solid going into year 2. Then Glover reinjured his knee and the Tomlin fiasco ensued. Cam Carter was asked to be a dude but began to struggle. Coach Tang had sold the dream and crazy faith but it was just not enough to overcome the loss of Markquis, Keyonte, Tomlin and Glover. He knew we once again needed an infusion of dudes to have a chance to dance next year.

The portal and NIL has left a lot of teams in the lurch. I have faith that this staff will assemble a good team, with a little help from the man above. I support individuals with the courage of their convictions. Both you and Tang fit that profile. I think it is just fine that you feel differently about Coach Tang than most posters here.

[learnin]

I thought Carter was very good at the beginning of this last year and then something changed. I believe there was something that upset him mid year.

[Highway26north]

I came to catch up. This thread is almost unreadable due to posts incorporating a string of prior posts and replies. With respect to
recruiting it is apparently the case that the Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away so maybe the Lord ought to be kept out of the
recruiting business. As bad as NIL may be, it is superior to the system in which historic cheaters prospered and were bowed down to
year after year by the NCAA establishment, not excluding referees. With the possible exception of Izzo, tho I'm no insider. Seems to me
the key in this brave new world is that a coach has to have good chemistry with his players and that counts for a huge amount. You don't
get that by systematically recruiting over your own players. Maybe from time to time, but not open a sweepstakes every spring. As an Illini fan
I was so pleased to watch Brad this year. I never saw him smile so much. He was very rarely screaming or scowling. Seems like the reason
was he had good players who left it in the floor most every night. The best defense against NIL is bonding.