Reflections

[learnin]

If we are going back to former coaches, I think Coach Huggins deserves a huge amount of credit for pulling our basketball program off the mat, even though he was here for only one year.

Frank Martin was able to use Huggins' recruits (along with some good ones of his own) to continue the success. Still, though, I didn't care for Frank's antics as well the way he operated very close to the line of NCAA rules. I still think if it had not been for Currie being so anal about NCAA compliance, we would have had the NCAA sniffing around our program because of the way Frank did things.

I liked Coach Weber and was happy with him for running a clean program, not to mention the two conference titles and the Elite 8. I was one of those who was in favor of giving Weber one more year when others were demanding him be fired after two straight losing seasons. After the third one, I felt it was time for a change. He did seem to be snake bit with injuries to key players, not to mention the Foster fiasco.

I'm very happy that we hired Coach Tang. Like Weber, he has good values and runs a clean program. Yes, he has made mistakes, but he is still growing himself as a new head coach. I like how he and his staff work to instill good values in the players and truly care for them as future fathers, husbands, and leaders in the community. He has also been snake bit with some issues involving key players, but it is too early to be overly critical of Coach Tang. He has already given us an Elite 8 and back-to-back winning seasons. Let's see what next season brings before we pass too harsh of a judgment on him.

Hi, stlcatfan. Thank you for your post.

1. Huggins was breaking the rules in order to jumpstart the program and that's the problem I had with him. Martin continued the same. Weber saved us from the FBI sting. You see, this is another area where Weber doesn't get near enough credit. Make no mistake about this. The NCAA would have caught Martin as they did in South Carolina. The NCAA would have hammered Kansas State like they did Oklahoma State. KU? North Carolina? They get a pass.

2. I have no problem with Tang's record for the first two years. As I pointed out, I do have a problem with the bravado and brash statements based upon the crazy faith ideology. There is no need for me to repeat them. I see a danger here as great as Frank's abuse of players.

[stlcatfan]

If we are going back to former coaches, I think Coach Huggins deserves a huge amount of credit for pulling our basketball program off the mat, even though he was here for only one year.

Frank Martin was able to use Huggins' recruits (along with some good ones of his own) to continue the success. Still, though, I didn't care for Frank's antics as well the way he operated very close to the line of NCAA rules. I still think if it had not been for Currie being so anal about NCAA compliance, we would have had the NCAA sniffing around our program because of the way Frank did things.

I liked Coach Weber and was happy with him for running a clean program, not to mention the two conference titles and the Elite 8. I was one of those who was in favor of giving Weber one more year when others were demanding him be fired after two straight losing seasons. After the third one, I felt it was time for a change. He did seem to be snake bit with injuries to key players, not to mention the Foster fiasco.

I'm very happy that we hired Coach Tang. Like Weber, he has good values and runs a clean program. Yes, he has made mistakes, but he is still growing himself as a new head coach. I like how he and his staff work to instill good values in the players and truly care for them as future fathers, husbands, and leaders in the community. He has also been snake bit with some issues involving key players, but it is too early to be overly critical of Coach Tang. He has already given us an Elite 8 and back-to-back winning seasons. Let's see what next season brings before we pass too harsh of a judgment on him.

Hi, stlcatfan. Thank you for your post.

1. Huggins was breaking the rules in order to jumpstart the program and that's the problem I had with him. Martin continued the same. Weber saved us from the FBI sting. You see, this is another area where Weber doesn't get near enough credit. Make no mistake about this. The NCAA would have caught Martin as they did in South Carolina. The NCAA would have hammered Kansas State like they did Oklahoma State. KU? North Carolina? They get a pass.

2. I have no problem with Tang's record for the first two years. As I pointed out, I do have a problem with the bravado and brash statements based upon the crazy faith ideology. There is no need for me to repeat them. I see a danger here as great as Frank's abuse of players.

I didn't know that Huggins was breaking rules to jumpstart the program. Do you remember what in particular he did? I believe there were questions about how he was able to recruit, but as I remember he was not actually violating any NCAA rules regarding recruiting. I think during Martin's time there were questions about money for Beasley's mother and of course there was the Samuels incident.

Regarding Coach Tang, I guess I am not concerned about Coach Tang being open about his faith. I would be if he was a phony and was using religion to deceive people for his own selfish ends. However, I think Coach Tang is genuine in his faith and is not afraid to share it. I think the students respect him, too. For example, look at how he got the students to stop the eff KU chant when the administration was wringing its hands on how to get the students to stop the chant. He even gave out his personal cell phone number to the students in case they needed anything. I believe Coach Tang mentioned that a student called and needed gas to get home so he bought the student gas for his car. I'm sure he has talked or texted with many students through his personal phone during his time here. I believe it was last year at the Big 12 Tourney that he went and visited a young boy at a local KC hospital after receiving a text from his mom (who by the way didn't even ask him to visit -- he just went on his own volition).

As you mentioned, he engages the students on a personal level with the Hang with Tang purple couch episodes. He has gone into the student section several times to celebrate with the students after a big win. He also got the students to no longer rush the court. I can't think of another coach in the entire country who is this engaged with the student body. And as I mentioned, I appreciate how he sees coaching as a ministry to help his players become the best version of themselves. And of course, I have not touched on his immediate success by going to the Elite 8 his first season and winning the Naismith Coach of Year award. I just feel really fortunate that we have a coach like Tang. Baylor folks told us we were getting a good coach and they were right, IMO.

Take care!

[spot2180]

Two different coaches. Two different styles. If Tang's religiosity is your biggest problem with him, it is possible you are exclusively using that lens to be overly critical. I will echo the point made in a previous post: After losing two starting players for the season before the first game, I think Tang did a pretty good job.

It has nothing to do with religion. I'm pointing out the danger of its misuse.

Nothing? Then why bring it up? It would surprise you how religious kids are these days, especially the black kids. I don't think Tang isn't using it as a tool or a false flag.

[spot2180]

I'm really tired of the excuses for this team. K-State didn't "lose" two starters. Glover was never going to be a starter and the other guy eliminated himself because he decided that he was going to be a thug. But I can understand the sympathy tied to this player. After all, he was the leading returning scorer and was the one who was going to take this team to the Final Four. Fans are always willing to overlook the sins of such a player, because it's in THEIR best interest to do so. Frankly, I don't want thugs playing for my school. He doesn't deserve to play for my school. That's just my opinion. It's not a popular one on this forum, but I have higher standards for athletes that put on a KSU uniform like I did once. I saw a teammate kicked off the team for drinking a beer. He was a 5-star athlete given today's standards. That may seem a little extreme, but there were other things that led to that, and he then broke a team rule. So he was shown the door ... without discussion. The team accepted it, and got better.

And here's the big unknown. Crowing about two players who didn't play is not going to erase any of those bad losses that this team had. And it's not going to produce any imaginary wins either. Other teams also deal with personnel issues.

Excuses are for losers.

You'll get over it. You are making excuses for others excuses. You seem to be bent against Coach Tang. Hmmmm, I wonder why...

And do you know all the ins and out of what happened with Tomlin? I don't. Feel free to inform us all. We know your opinion, what else do you have?

As far as crowing goes, it sure seems you are crowing for Tang's failure. Again, I wonder why...

Excuses are for losers? And bitching is for....?

[KSUbetcha]

Coach Tang exorcized the KU Chant by the K-State students. For that reason alone he should get our congratulations.

[xtrawildcat]

Fans are disappointed with this season. And Tang is being criticized by fans for not addressing the tov issue and for signing Glover because he had a meniscus injury last year. Fans are rightfully looking at next years roster and will be judging Tang before the season by how he fills it. And they will be evaluating how Tang coaches that roster and judging him on wins and losses.

I'll give you a break for attempting to compare Weber's treatment with Tang's during their first two years. Perhaps you weren't posting during 2012 on the old scout forum among others. If, however, you are cognizant of how things were when Weber arrived in Manhattan, your comparison is quite extraordinary. I've read all of the media articles and social media posts about this year's team. Yes, they lament the chronic turnovers and sloppy play of this team. I've heard plenty of comments about Carter being a turnover machine. I've heard a few fans talk about the poor offensive schemes usually made by fans who did not appreciate Weber's treatment. I've seen Fitz sigh and roll his eyes when talking about the play of this team, but he never mentions Tang in the same breath. It is always mitigated by the fact that Coach Tang lost two terrific players. Bruce was sentenced for being a bad coach before his plane touched down and every bad result was laid at his feet by a sizeable portion of the fan base.

You brought up Weber when everybody else long ago moved on. SoYou will have to remind me when Weber lost two starter calibre players for the entire season with the season already being underway. .[Kam Stokes did not have a knee injury he did not recover from. He injured it his freshman year halfway through the Big 12 season and was recovered for his sophomore year. Started 35 games that year and averaged 33 minutes that year. He missed about 10 games his junior year with a foot injury. We went to the elite 8 that year..

Right off the bat, Dean Wade being hampered for several years was greater than the loss of Tomlin and Glover for one year. Secondly, I can appreciate the way you worded that challenge. "Two starter caliber players for the entire season with the season already underway." With that sleight of hand, you eliminated the negative effect of DJ being hobbled for multiple years; Dean being hobbled for multiple years: Bradford being hobbled for most of the year with C

Finally, a reminder so you can move on with the rest of us. Weber finished his last three years with losing records so he was replaced. Tang will receive the same treatment if he has three losing seasons in a row.

Are you making Dean's injuries an excuse for going to the elite 8 and winning the conference his junior and senior year? Fans did not complain about Webers results in the years Dean was injured.

Webers inability to deliver good teams after Deans senior year was his downfall. Yes, he had to deal with Covid in those years. Just like every other team in the country.
Blaming Bradfords lack of production his sophomore year on Coid is really weak. Bradford could not crack the starting line up at Wake Forest last year and averaged 2.3 pts a game. We were all fooled by Bradford's freshmen year. But something in his make up caused him to become ineffective.

[Gorhoops]

To me it is pretty obvious, if in fact it is true, why fans were more critical of Weber than they have been of Tang. Most would just say that we knew who Coach Weber was, we knew what he had done at a P5 school and many were disappointed that more time and a more exhaustive search wasn't done to look for a coach to follow a popular guy in Coach Martin and most fans just felt Weber was just a quick hire made because he was as far from Frank Martin as you could get.

Honestly, those ideas proved to be true. Weber's tenure at KSU was pretty similar to his tenure at Illinois, quick early success with holdover players from a former coach, then a roller coaster of bad years with some average and good added along the way.

But when many fans look at Coach Tang, there is some unknown with him as a head coach but the unknown brings a lot of excitement. Most of us sat and watched every year as Baylor rolled out these long, athletic dudes year after year after year and wondered how they got those guys. Then within days of Coach Tang being hired, he brings in Ulrich Maligi, a guy considered nationally to be one of the elite recruiters. All of that led to a pretty dang fun first season and a lot of excitement for the second season, mainly because we signed three top 150 high school players, a starter from a good Creighton program that had averaged 11ppg and a guard that had won everywhere he had been and had just been the NIT MVP. We also then get a commitment from a top 50 player in the 2024 class and people are over the moon because we are signing high school players rated better than anything we have seen since early Frank days and we are in the mix for some studs in the portal like Abmas and Toussaint, losing those battles to money and being close to a guy like Ngbonga.

But the Tomlin stuff hit the program pretty hard and set this season back. That hurt.

I have posted that I hope Coach Tang tamps down some of the rhetoric in the coming months. I don't need to hear a bunch of proclamations of things to come, I just want to see results. But I am still 100% on board and am excited to see how portal recruiting takes shape over the next few months.

Go Cats

[xtrawildcat]

Yep, discussion should be focused on next years roster construction

[pulitzerdavid]

Tang bombed this year ... simple as that. Bottom half of the conference, and a flame out in the NIT. And he's the best coach in a very long time!

You have the right to express your frustration with Coach Tang. There's a lot of people who are disappointed & I'm sure that includes Coach Tang. But I believe that Coach Tang has more than earned a pass for this year's team. I mean aren't we less than a year removed from nearly going to the Final Four his first year?

I'm sure Coach Tang thought he'd have Tomlin & Glover at the beginning of the season for the Big 12 Conference slate of games. If those two players had been available, I'd be willing to wager a not so small sum that we have at least 2-3 more wins. Tomlin himself pumped in 14-20+ points alone for Memphis a couple times, and his contributions won multiple games for them. Having an additional scorer like Tomlin would've probably turned the tide for a few wins that ended up as losses this year. But unfortunately his actions resulted in him not playing for KSU this year. I'm sure that ADGT doesn't even see a flicker of warmth under Coach Tang's chair, after two seasons. So I would not even try and speculate on something as ludacris as wondering about the MBB Coaching job this season. Period. Full Stop.

What was Memphis' record before Tomlin joined the team, and what was their record after Tomlin joined the team?

And quit talking about Tomlin and Glover. That's nothing more than an excuse for a failed season. And here's why. More than once, Tang has said that with his current roster, "we can beat anyone in the country". Remember that? But when they play poorly and lose, Tang brings up "those other two players" lamenting their loss to the team. So which is it? Can't have it both ways.

[SCKSCat]

Coaching college basketball is a multifaceted affair --- X and Os, recruiting, marketing, branding, transport portal, mentor, HR, public relations, university representatives, and community cheerleader.

Coach Weber was good with the X and Os when he had talented players. You don't have his coaching record if you can't. I think Weber struggled with mentoring at times, but overall connected with the majority of his players.

Recruiting wise he did recruit a few.good players, but not enough. He also liked the University and Manhattan, but his style.was to do it low key and he didn't get the he should of had in this area.

The rest of the areas he had shortcomings.

It was a time for change. The person that was fair and kind to Bruce Weber by giving him the time and chance to right the ship after a season of 9 wins eventually asked Weber to leave, and is the person who chose Tang as our coach. AD Taylor had crazy faith in someone who never as a head coach and bucked the fans who voraciously disliked Weber and wanted Underwood.